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Hi there first post
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rjlittlefield
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aenima wrote:
I think i read somewhere that leitz photo adapters used eyepiece projection (or maybe afocal), but hadn't considered that a lens might be used/needed in there somewhere.
It was an attempt to use the ocular as a projection lens.

There are special optics called "projection eyepieces", that insert into an eyepiece port and are specifically designed to serve as low magnification transfer lenses. In some sense one "ideal" solution is to find a projection eyepiece that has the right correction to match your objectives, plus the right magnification to match your sensor size. But that combination can be tricky and/or expensive to find. If you have to use objectives that need correction, then it's usually simpler to pair a normal eyepiece that provides the correction, with another lens that completes the image formation using the afocal technique. Some manufacturers built camera adapters using the latter approach, with the added lens built into the camera adapter.

So, depending on what you read, it could have been referring to the special projection eyepieces, or it could have been referring to the afocal method, or it could have been referring to (mis)using an ordinary eyepiece as a projection eyepiece and just accepting some loss in image quality.

--Rik
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Pau
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually the Leitz microscopes of its time used afocal adapters, an adequate projective compensating eyepiece (if made) would be difficult to find and not very adequate for APSC cameras.

If you want to make a compound microscope like you're doing you need to make all distances following the original design:

- Distance from the objective shoulder to the eyepiece shoulder: 170mm
(or distance from the objective shoulder to the eyepiece field diaphragm 152mm - I was wrong when I said 160mm)
- A camera lens of about ~30-40mm FL focused to infinite very close to the eyepiece upper lens (afocal)

Although less adequate you could use eyepiece projection without camera lens with a normal 10X eyepiece increasing the distance between objective and eyepiece about 5 to 10mm and with the adequate distance from the eyepiece and camera sensor, I don't know that distance as I don't use this method but it may be about 100mm, likely bigger that the one you're using.

With a APSC camera you want a total magnification on sensor about 1.6 X (objective magnification)
The easier way to measure magnification is taking a picture of a ruler placed at the longer side of the sensor and compare it with the width of your sensor.

All that said, I find much more useful and simpler for macro to use an adequate objective on extension. This one seems an excellent inexpensive option: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=223281#223281
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Aenima



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
Posts: 16
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANKS GUYS.

Some helpful info there.

That Amscope 4x objective looks fantastic, its a pity the shipping from the US. will probably be more than the lens itself in price. (I'm assuming the link above was for the Amscope 4x?)


I ordered a cheap vintage LOMO 9x finite objective from ebay. Not a big outlay so it's a gamble i'm okay with. Maybe i can find someone in the UK that has an Amscope 4x they are finished using. Otherwise a similar model might be available in the UK, will have to look into what people are using, and find something relatively inexpensive.

To be honest i thought it might save money and time to use the objectives from my microscope but it doesn't seem to be working that way haha Razz oh well, live n learn innit Very Happy
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Aenima



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i should add that for my olympus BH2 that i'm building up slowly with bits and pieces from ebay I actually have a 2.5x projecting lens (NFK type) which might be used in a similar way to the eyepiece in my adapter - although i'm assuming the 125mm extra distance needed for the microscope will also be needed if it became part of the DSLR adapter...

( p.s I was reluctant to pick the olympus setup apart as i'm trying to get that working for micro stuff...)

Thats gonna be another lot of tubes i'll have to put together. Providing i can support it physically and avoid vibrations it could be worth considering....

I get the feeling i probably have most of the pieces here that will do the job, i just need to figure it out, and organize the parts into a working setup.

haha, sounds easy when i say it like that ... Razz


Last edited by Aenima on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aenima wrote:
THANKS GUYS.

Some helpful info there.

That Amscope 4x objective looks fantastic, its a pity the shipping from the US. will probably be more than the lens itself in price. (I'm assuming the link above was for the Amscope 4x?)


I ordered a cheap vintage LOMO 9x finite objective from ebay. Not a big outlay so it's a gamble i'm okay with. Maybe i can find someone in the UK that has an Amscope 4x they are finished using. Otherwise a similar model might be available in the UK, will have to look into what people are using, and find something relatively inexpensive.

To be honest i thought it might save money and time to use the objectives from my microscope but it doesn't seem to be working that way haha Razz oh well, live n learn innit Very Happy


Even at 2 times the price the AmScope 4X is a pretty good value IMO. Chris, I think, noted some time ago that there are lots of very similar looking, and in some cases almost exactly looking lens that don't have the same quality optics. This is so because the outside case is removable and simply screws over the interior optics base, so one could put different optics inside and just screw the same cover over for a "look alike" lens.

Best,

Mike
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just checked, the Nikon
4x BE MRN70040 is £31 + £5 carriage & VAT, to UK.

I checked with Robert Otoole who has just run a 4x test. I'd prefer the Nikon- it's cleaner centrally (on FX). It's not a true plan but the corners improve on stacking.

Robert says it's $82.45 in the US, so if you don't like it, sell it there!
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27205
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I goofed Embarassed - the BE is an infinite type objective, so you'd need to put it on a 200mm camera lens to make it work, as intended .

It might work ok on tubes /bellows.
It would work ok on lenses other than 200mm, to give different magnifications - the image circle is quite large.
It would also be possible to alter focus on an internally focusing camera lens to shift the image focus a little. Stacking should therefore be possible though Helicon Remote (free) or similar software.
Therefore, some would say it's better to have, than a finite type which just goes on tubes/bellows.
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Aenima



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Chris. Smile

Any idea how i would go about buying it?

Do i need to go through the "Request a quote" process or can i just order one from somewhere?

Is the official Nikon website the only place it is sold?



Thanks for the suggestion BTW, it will be great if i can get a reasonably good objective for 30-40GBP Smile
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikon Instruments
020 8247 1717
Let the voice tell you you can't ask about camera stuff on that number,
Then option 1
Credit card works!

They said order TODAY! for Xmas delivery.
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Aenima



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! Will try that Smile


I'll let you know how i get on.



Much appreciated.
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