Macro Focusing Rails

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Mannheim62
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Macro Focusing Rails

Post by Mannheim62 »

Hi,

This is my first post on the site. I'm looking at buying a focusing rail. At this point I don't think I want anything motorized. I'd like to know if anyone has had any experience using either the:

1. Arca Swiss: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ystem.html

2. Hejnar: http://www.hejnarphotostore.com/product-p/ms3_8x8.htm

In closing, I'm also open to other suggestions if you think I've over looked another rail.
Thanks,
Mike

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Both rails you linked to are XY, so they contain 2 rails. Do you need to have ability to move the camera in both X and Y?

Maybe you can write a bit about your goals with the rail. Will you be using it for manual focus stacking, or single shots? At what magnification?

Mannheim62
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Post by Mannheim62 »

I'd like to start with manual focus stacking. With regards to magnification; at this point I'll start with 1:1. I'm using a Nikon D810 and either the Nikon 105mm F/2.8 or the Sigma 150mm f/2.8. Do I need the ability to move the camera in both X and Y axis? At this point I really don't know; I'm just starting out. Hope this helps. Thank you replying.

Mike

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Mike,

For stacking you only need one axis, so you can make do with a much cheaper rail.

A couple more questions:

Do you plan having the camera horizontal, or vertical?
What will the rail mount to? (Tripod, copy stand, optical breadboard, etc)

Ray

lothman
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Post by lothman »

today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusi ... B01NAMWTMA

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Post by ChrisR »

Mike - note that your model #1 will have a much less fine movement than the one with the longitudinal thread.
Type 1 maybe 20mm/revolution,
Type 2 maybe 1.25mm/revolution.

For stacking you find the finer one, much easier to control.
1:1 will need steps less than 1mm.
Last edited by ChrisR on Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chris R

Mannheim62
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Post by Mannheim62 »

ray_parkhurst wrote:Mike,

For stacking you only need one axis, so you can make do with a much cheaper rail.

A couple more questions:

Do you plan having the camera horizontal, or vertical?
What will the rail mount to? (Tripod, copy stand, optical breadboard, etc)

Ray
Ray,
That's good to know I can save a little money. Any suggestions?
If I use my Sigma 150mm 2.8, I can do either vertical or horizontal because it has a collar. If I use my 105 2.8, that's obviously a different story but my D810 does have a Kirk "L Bracket".
I can either mount it on a tripod or a Kirk "Low Pod" which is a table top support.
Mike

Mannheim62
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Post by Mannheim62 »

lothman wrote:today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusi ... B01NAMWTMA
Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike

Mannheim62
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Post by Mannheim62 »

ChrisR wrote:Mike - note that your model #1 will have a much less fine movement than the one with the longitudinal thread.
Type 1 maybe 20mm/revolution,
Type 2 maybe 1.25mm/revolution.

For stacking you find the finer one much easier to control.
1:1 will need steps less than 1mm.
Hi ChrisR.

Thanks for replying. If I'm understanding you correctly, the Hejnar rail would be easier to control for stacking. That rail is also available in a single access so I could save some money.

Mike

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Post by rjlittlefield »

Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusi ... B01NAMWTMA
Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike
The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik

Mannheim62
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Post by Mannheim62 »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusi ... B01NAMWTMA
Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike
The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik
Rik,
Thanks for replying and including the links. I think I'd be willing to spend more money and buy it once ... if you understand my train of thought. Another way to put it is: I'd like to buy something I can grow into instead of out-of. I hope I'm making sense ... it's been a long day. :)
Mike

gaconsooner
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Post by gaconsooner »

I'm using this one for extreme macro, though I'm not super professional

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-XY-Axis-St ... SwstxVSdaj

The minimum step interval is 0.01mm, which is really good for 5-8x magnification. you need to modify it a bit to place your camera on it and put the whole system on a non-moving stage (tripod is also doable)

Hope this help

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Mannheim62 wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusi ... B01NAMWTMA
Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike
The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik
Rik,
Thanks for replying and including the links. I think I'd be willing to spend more money and buy it once ... if you understand my train of thought. Another way to put it is: I'd like to buy something I can grow into instead of out-of. I hope I'm making sense ... it's been a long day. :)
Mike
Mike,

I know you indicated that you didn't think you want anything motorized for a focus rail, however if you are considering spending the $ indicated for a manual rail why not consider a motorized rail such as the Cognisys Stackshot rail system which does not require any computer?

The other motorized rail systems discussed on this site, such as the Wemacro and MJKZZ, do require additional computers (smartphones or laptops or pads), but the Stackshot System is completely stand along.

All the rail systems mentioned can perform steps below 10 microns for high precision work. The Stackshot & Wemacro rails systems have battery packs for field use as well.

Anyway, these motorized rails are certainly something you can "grow into". Hope this helps.

Best,

Mike

lothman
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Location: Stuttgart/Germany

Post by lothman »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusi ... B01NAMWTMA
Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike
The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik
mine has much less as the 1mm backslash mentioned by enricosavazzi. As long as we stack in only one direction backslash is no issue. But when you want to focus forth and back at high magnification this is of course annoying.

For a beginner I strongly recommend a 60$ Ishoot rail, the best I know for such small money.

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Mannheim62 wrote:
ray_parkhurst wrote:Mike,

For stacking you only need one axis, so you can make do with a much cheaper rail.

A couple more questions:

Do you plan having the camera horizontal, or vertical?
What will the rail mount to? (Tripod, copy stand, optical breadboard, etc)

Ray
Ray,
That's good to know I can save a little money. Any suggestions?
If I use my Sigma 150mm 2.8, I can do either vertical or horizontal because it has a collar. If I use my 105 2.8, that's obviously a different story but my D810 does have a Kirk "L Bracket".
I can either mount it on a tripod or a Kirk "Low Pod" which is a table top support.
Mike
The Low Pod looks to be a good way to go for a horizontal mount.

Once you start doing focus stacking, especially if you increase in magnification, you will likely soon tire of the manual adjustments and will be looking for an automated solution. With respect to your statements about not wanting to go automated right away, I can only suggest to minimize your expenditures for the manual focus rail by buying an inexpensive one that will adequately do your initial work at 1:1 but doesn't offer the precision required for higher magnifications. I would still concentrate on getting a worm gear driven rail, rather than a rack and pinion type, since they are more precise, especially if they have a large-ish knob.

If you agree with the philosophy above, then there are a couple of inexpensive options to work with. The iShoot rail already recommended (with backlash reservations) is one inexpensive option. Even more inexpensive options are available on eBay, and they likely all have issues of backlash and such. In my experience, backlash and other unwanted movements are not such a big problem, as long as you move your rail beyond your starting point, then move in only one direction during the stack.

Here are a couple to look at:

This one looks like a copy of an older rail marketed by Spiratone:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wormdrive-Macr ... SwEetV9fOA

This one looks to have a fairly fine pitch screw, and like the Hejnars has very nice feature of adjustments from each end.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MENGS-W-160-Ma ... SwzilZvMCD

I can't directly vouch for either of these, but I have just ordered examples of both to test. I really like the MENGS, with its dual-drive system, as it gives a hint that it might be convertible for automation. I may try it out as a manual rail, then attempt a conversion.

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