Best gear for field stacking?

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banania
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Best gear for field stacking?

Post by banania »

I am using Stackshot + Helicon remote for studio stacks but for field stacks I am doing manual focus stacking - take a photo, turn the focus ring, take a photo etc.

I bought and tested the Helicon FB tube but that's not really an viable option for field stacks (with my present gear), for several reasons.
My field gear is now Canon d5 mark II + canon 100mm L macro ( + 2x teleconverter).

There are several problems with my present setup. Manual stacking is really slow since there has to be a waiting period for shutter/mirror vibrations to die out, even if shooting with EFSC and in LiveMode. Lighting conditions change really fast and one can't really change the settings while stacking.

I could buy a battery pack for stackshot and use the stackshot controller. Or I could use a tablet with usb host/portable + helicon remote with usb cable. I am contemplating both of these options. Both of these mean more stuff to carry and also new expenses. So maybe a portable table also... and a chair, but stacking would still be quite slow as there is no way around second shutter curtain vibrations.

I am thinking about mirrorless cameras with elelctronic shutters. Sony alpha 7 ii would make really fast stacking possible and there is an adapter (metabones iv) for my 100 mm macro. But Helicon Remote is compatible with only Nikon and Canon gear so there is no software for creating the stacks with Sony - I think - still manual focus stacking.

So I don't know what is the best option here. Anyone out there pondering these same options? Or maybe there are even better option available?

Henri

JH
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Post by JH »

Hi

I tried focus bracketing with DSLR Controller and a 5D II with a 100 mm macro here: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 518#218518
It was more than 5 000 pictures so I needed to have some automation.
It worked OK. I do not know if it is possible to set a delay time between the pictures.

-Jörgen
Jörgen Hellberg, my webbsite www.hellberg.photo

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Lou Jost has written with enthusiasm about using Olympus Pen F and OM-D E-M5 II with Olympus macro lens and in-camera focus bracketing to shoot stacks quickly in the field.

See for example the thread at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=33139 .

--Rik

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

The Olympus solution Rik mentions, and Lou Jost uses, is incredible. If I did a great deal of "field stacking" this would be at the top of my list. It is a MFT sensor, so if you absolutely need a FF camera it is not the answer. But it is a 20Mp sensor and the quality is excellent. (There is also the new Nikon D850 but no reports yet on how the feature in implemented with that one).

Some of my "thoughts" from a previous thread on the Olympus:
This first one was shot at f3.2 (1/3 down from open). It was from a stack of 132 images that was "acquired" in 28 seconds. I used a "one" unit focus step, and subsequently tried stacking every other image. The results (using every other image) were almost identical and I really had to look hard to find just a few spots that (maybe) were not quite as good. The magnification was fairly close to 1:1. Subject was smaller than it looks. With some and testing you should be able to arrive at the best "focus unit" to use to avoid acquiring too many images.
Link to the full image:
http://www.krebsmicro.com/forumpix/PMax ... point2.jpg


This second shot was at f4, from a stack of 50 images, acquired in 7 seconds. I did not try an "every other one" version. This was also right about 1:1
http://www.krebsmicro.com/forumpix/2466-2516-f4-1.jpg


This third was a quick simple stack.... at 1:1
http://www.krebsmicro.com/forumpix/penf-f4-2.jpg

After I sent the camera back I looked over all images taken and felt that the camera jpgs were too contrasty. I think it was at the default setting, but if I were to try it again I would check the settings take the contrast (and maybe even default sharpness) down a notch or two from what I was getting. Occasionally the highlights were difficult to retain on the default jpgs, but were fine in the raw files.
Quote:
Does RAW recording, slow the taking?

Yes it will. For example I checked the EXIF info on the outdoor stacks I did. I did some recording both jpg and raw, and some recording jpg only. (I had the jpgs set for the "Superfine" setting Lou mentioned).

My shutter speeds varied from 1/30 to 1/50 sec.

One stack referenced above (the lily anther) was recorded as jpg only. As mentioned it took 7 seconds to acquire 50 images.

I did an earlier stack recording both raw and jpg and it took 20 seconds to record 53 images.

It's probably important to keep in mind that I was using a SDHC Class 10 card... no slouch, but there are considerably faster ones available and the camera can make use of use UHS II cards. It seemed to slow down after somewhere between 20 and 30 images. It acquired the images as follows (from the EXIF time):
(Pen-F, recording raw + jpg)
first 10 images ~ 1sec
up to 20 images ~ 2 sec
up to 30 images ~6 sec
up to 40 images ~12 sec
up to 50 images ~19 sec
53 images ~20 sec

banania
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Post by banania »

Thanks for the info.

The image of aphids + this data (Pen-F, recording raw + jpg, first 10 images ~ 1sec) are both impressive. I've photographed a lot of aphids and never even considered doing field stacks as they move a bit all the time. 10 shots a second would open up great possibilities. This is very tempting... but changing all gear is expensive and it would be nice to be able to use the same gear in studio settings as well, like doing microscope stacks with a macro rig.

"Olympus macro lens" means this one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olympus-M-Zui ... Sw-EBZulnv

I wonder if there exists an adapter that would make it possible to focus bracket with canon lenses, like Canon 100mm L macro or mpe-65. I don't know about the quality of the above Zuiko macro lens for Olympus micro 4/3, but it is cheap. And is there a way to go beyond 1:1 with Olympus micro 4/3?

Different gear for field focus bracketing and studio focus bracketing with microscope lenses is an option and the above body + macro lens would be a comparably cheap solution for field gear. I wonder how micro 4/3 body would fair in a microscope setup. There would be no need for stabilization periods between shots, except for those due to rail movements, but maybe just driving the rail continuously and focus bracketing (and even fast preview focus stacking) on-the-go would be possible, at least between 2x - 10x.

Sony A7 ii series would be still better solution, with its big sensor and metabone adapters for Canon lenses, if there only were software for focus bracketing. It can't be very complicated. I wonder why Sony is not offering this.

Helicon FB tube would also be quite usable here, but is not really much use when combined with a camera with mirror and shutter curtains. Unfortunately it only functions with Nikon and Canon, as does Helicon Remote.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Banania, yes, that is the Olympus lens that works best for focus stacking in the field. It works very well if yo can hold still. In the field so far I have only done stacks up to m=1. It can do stacking when reversed with an adapter I made, but in this case the working distance is too small for anything that might spook.

There is a dearth of teleconverters for MFT format so that causes some problems. However in terms of field of view, full frame at m=2 is the same as MFT at m=1.

A Canon lens on an adapter will not focus-bracket on an MFT camera, as far as I can tell by reading. I have not actually tried it, but the camera has to know a lot about the lens to make this work.

banania
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Post by banania »

If I didn't have any gear and this would be my entry point to field macro focus bracketing Olympus would be maybe the best option. It is a pity if there is no adapter for Canon lenses and so far it looks like there is none.

Metabones tells among other things that

•No support for Focus Stacking and Focus Bracketing on Olympus

•No video AF for Olympus

http://www.metabones.com/products/details/mb_ef-m43-bt2

If Sony only had in-camera or third party software for focus bracketing (like helicon remote) that would open a host of new possibilities. Maybe I just have to wait for this to happen...

banania
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Post by banania »

As was mentioned above, Nikon D850 which will be available in September 2017 has electronic shutter option and also in-camera focus bracketing. I suppose there will be a burst shooting mode with mirror glued up using electronic shutter? That would be very nice...

Silent Shooter: The D850 offers the ability to operate with an electronic shutter in Live View. When in this mode, users can shoot in complete silence, which is ideal for weddings, ceremonies and events where the shutter sound is discouraged. The electronic shutter operates at up to 6 fps (AF/AE locked) at full resolution, while an additional mode enables 8.6-megapixel capture in DX image area mode at up to 30 fps.

Focus Stacking: Ideal for macro, product and landscape photographers, the Focus Shift Photography feature of the D850 is high resolution meets high magnification. This feature lets the user automatically shoot up to 300 shots at adjustable focus step intervals to infinity which can be easily assembled into a focus-stacked image using third party software.


Read more: http://www.canonrumors.com/off-brand-ni ... z4smAXFVBP

update: there is another discussion where I found this: "You can download the D850 manual from Nikon. They discuss live view with electronic shutter beginning on page 49.

On page 217 they discuss the focus shift (stacking) feature. It can not be used with live view and they state that selecting ON for silent mode disables flash and the exposure delay mode."

This sounds like no in-camera macro focus bracketing...

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

update: there is another discussion where I found this: "You can download the D850 manual from Nikon. They discuss live view with electronic shutter beginning on page 49.

On page 217 they discuss the focus shift (stacking) feature. It can not be used with live view and they state that selecting ON for silent mode disables flash and the exposure delay mode."

This sounds like no in-camera macro focus bracketing...
I read through the manual and saw this. From reading the manual it is impossible to understand exactly how these "features" are implemented. We'll just need to wait until a member here gets one and checks it out.

ghostcrab
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Testing my Nikon D850

Post by ghostcrab »

Began using my Nikon D850 this past week in the field 1st attempt Botanical Garden 2nd attempt WCS (Bronx Zoo) with the following result & impressions. First the potential is unreal, but there is the "Learning Curve". there are no remote capabilities, everything is through the camera. The 'focus shifting is all menu driven, the stacks are stored in separate folders, for each stack on the cards. I sent up mine with each stack beginning with number 1. The system is very similar to using CamRanger. Focus on the closest point, set the number of images and the depth, I shoot mine as TIFf"s. Must use a tripod and as the subject must be still. Since I'm pressed for time right now, I'll include my Processed images later today or tomorrow. Working with flash, a required interval is required for recycling but with small video KED or ambient light, no interval. The imaging capability on this camera is unreal, you can read about it through Nikon. AT WCS, took several indoor images of snakes and a other reptiles (I'll include them tomorrow). Outdoors, I photographed an Aldabra Turtle & several birds using a stack of anywhere from 8-18 images & processed the stack when I returned home. Problems I encountered at the Botanical Garden had to do with winds, was able to get one decent test image. With the animals I traveled light (too light) & used a Nikon 28-300mm zoom ( not the best mostly due to telescoping focus rather than internal-also forgot my wireless flash attachment) I'll go back next week with my 70-200mm f/2.8 & better flash.The touch screen on the menu is the way to go but have to be careful and touch the right control. Have to leave, much more will follow and I'll entertain any questions.

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

ghostcrab,

Congratulations on your new D850. Looks to be a fantastic camera!
much more will follow and I'll entertain any questions.
Can you check to see if it is possible to trigger an electronic flash from live-view with the camera set to "silent live view". If possible it would be great to know if this is possible with both a Nikon brand flash, as well as with a "non-dedicated" manual flash (like a studio flash or an inexpensive manual YongNuo or similar).

Once you begin a focus stack is there any way to see the progress of each image on the rear LCD (perhaps by setting a small interval)? Is the camera using the fully electronic shutter for each exposure of the stack (i.e any noise from camera operations during stack acquisition)?

ghostcrab
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Additional d850 stacking info

Post by ghostcrab »

I'm impressed with all it can do but still experimenting. When using the stacking (Focus shifting as Nikon calls it) I seem to be limited to utilizing other capabilities within the camera. When I used the flash (only once in the field and twice in the studio) I was using the Nikon SB 5000 in wireless remote which worked just fine, it was necessary to have a 1 second interval between exposures to allow of flash to recycle. I have not tried silent live view but I don't think it will work with stacking as this new Nikon capability seems to isolated from various other camera functions. The Nikon folks I've spoken to know very little about focus shifting so I find myself doing a great deal of trial and error. I've been using a small camera video LED light to photograph images of small animals close. Small rattlesnake 8 image stackImage
A lighting option I'm looking into would be the Roto light Neo 2 LED which can flash at high speed with no recycling. I'm hoping to go to the zoo sometime next week and play with my internal focus 70-200mm f/2.8 lens. and ambient light.


Everything is menu controlled, no remote capabilities as of yet. CamRanger will have an update in the very near future. 'Focus shift' (Nikon's term for stacked focus) cannot be combined wit some camera features including live view, movie recording, time lapse movies, bracketing, the self timer, long time exposure, HDR,multiple exposure and interval timer. (taken from the user manual)

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