www.photomacrography.net :: View topic - ID Optiphot & equipment
www.photomacrography.net Forum Index
An online community dedicated to the practices of photomacrography, close-up and macro photography, and photomicrography.
Photomacrography Front Page Amateurmicrography Front Page
Old Forums/Galleries
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
ID Optiphot & equipment

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Beginners Micro
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
monocultured



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 0
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: ID Optiphot & equipment Reply with quote

Good evening all!

New member here; photographer by trade but newbie as to microscopy. I've been looking for getting started with a proper microscope for a while, and lo-and-behold I found one in storage at work and have set about to getting it up and running. The place where I found it also had boxes of other optical equipment (this is a school of photography, so plenty of such stuff) and I've tried my best to infer what belongs to what, but I thought that perhaps I could ask someone more knowledgeable if the scope I have is "complete" or if I ought to look for some vital missing part, or if I've found parts which are probably unrelated to the Optiphot. Which brings me here!

I've setup a dropbox gallery with the things I've found so far: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4dt73lwq5h2ihdt/uktxEJdnJ2#/
(Since it's not presented inline here I hope this doesn't violate the "6 images per day" rule)

I'd very much appreciate it if you could take a look at the gallery above and let me know what is what; some of the parts (image 9 for example) I can tell where the part goes, but not what it does (blocks light somehow for some reason?), other parts, like #13, just don't fit the eye-piece sockets so might be for something else…

Of course, I'd like to mount a camera onto the scope, and I imagine that the two tubes shown in the gallery might be adapted to the particular cameras that we have here, so if you have recommendations for that I'd appreciate it as well. (We use Canon, Nikon and Hasselblad)

I have a colleague at work who will hopefully help me get started on the operational / calibration part of how to use it, but his background is physics so I figure that outside help in identifying the scope would be useful if there are particular features used for biological samples more than metallurgical.

Thanks for taking the time reading this, and I'm looking forwards to participating and contributing to this forum once I get started!

[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'ts a very nice microscope!.
It is equipped for Transmitted and reflected (epi) illumination.
The objectives are suited mainly for epi illumination, allowing darkfield, brightfield, pol and (likely) DIC.

Only the low power objectives would be adequate for transmitted light with glass covered slides

About the parts:
2: Halogen light source for epi illumination It must fit at the upper rear slot
3: Epi illuminatior positions BF= bright field, DF dark field;
ND= neutral density filters to lower the light power without altering color temperature.
4: Camera coupler tube. No info about this model.
5: Dry darkfield condenser for transmitted light with objectives up to 0.7 NA
6: normal brightfield condenser for transmitted light. Both 5 and 6 fit at the substage condenser holder.
7. Polarizing filter. May fit at different places, maybe inside the microscope head to act as "analizer". the dot marked side must point opossed to the lilght source
8: slide to calibrate magnificaton and to help drawing scale bars
9: like 3.
10: slides and coverglasses to make preparations
11: old style Canon FD camera coupler for eyepiece proyection, not sure if it would e useful.
12: seems a centering device, has it a pinhole?
13: high power eyepiece, not very useful IMO
14: no idea
16: The slider over the objectives are likely for reflected DIC, only useful for metallic specimens under cross polarized light
17: Very nice Leitz Vario Orthomat zoom lens camera coupler. Search at the forum to find its use. I'm not sure if it would be convenient in a Nikon microscope. The C mount is for small format cameras, not adequate for DSLRs.

Search for the microscope manual and if really newbie for general microscopy sources.

About cameras, the most adequate would be Canon EOS with EFSC function. What models you have?
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
monocultured



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 0
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pau, thanks for your help, much appreciated.

2 & 3: Found a Nikon primer on the light path and what EPI illumination is about here: http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/stereomicroscopy/stereofluorescence.html but they also go into different filters & flourescence in samples, which I imagine would require particular light sources and filters in the lenses; or would it be possible to do flourescent imaging on this scope as well?

When using EPI lighting with the dark field filter, are there any other things I need to take into consideration? (Similar to that the DF condenser ought to be used up to 0.7NA)

4: The "camera coupler tube" actually has an eye-piece inserted at the moment (WILD Heerbrugg 10x/21) and I just tried to fit the 20x/12 eyepiece in there (image #13) and it's a perfect match diameter-wise.

12: Does not have a pinhole — the white spot in the center feels more like something residual from the moulding process.

16: So I ought to keep a look out for small polarising filters which might fit into the holders, in addition to a way to get cross polarization, should I want to look at opaque specimens?

Looking for info on DIC & such, I stumbled upon a beginners guide from Zeiss which is next on the reading list: http://www.zeiss.com/C1256B5E0051569F/EmbedTitelIntern/Microscopy_from_the_very_beginning/$File/Microscopy_from_the_very_beginning.pdf which seems to start on the level where I'm at…

17. The Vario Orthomat seems neat. I found this post http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8423 as a start. The camera mount part is screwed on, so I imagine that it's merely a question of buying the proper adapter. Most of the articles I find is on the combo of zoom and film-back, not on camera adapters, so if you have recommendations for reputable sellers I'd be interested.

Not using live-view functions for my work, I hadn't really thought about EFSC, but as we have 5D Mk II & III, 7D and they're included on EFSC compatibility lists, we ought to be set; thanks for the tip.
I'm curious though if anyone has used an central leaf shutter camera on a microscope, and how those vibrations compare to a curtain shutter. I imagine that a purely electronic shutter might be better, but what with the lack of heat buildup, and a large sensor, I'd be interested in how our Hasselblad cameras would fare if used on the microscope.

Cheers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- I have not experience with Epi darkfield (and very little with other epi illumination modes), but I think that because each objective has its own illumination train it may be easy. Of course you will need to full open the epi illuminator diaphragm (s).

-I don't know about the Wild eyepiece convenience.
If it is parfocal with the viewing eyepieces you have a good start point. You could use a Nikon 2.5 CF projective eyepiece (easy to find) and an empty camera adapter (maybe the Canon FD?) or a Nikon CFW 10X with a camera lens over it "afocal" (take a look at: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99265#99265 )

Another very relevant post about the vario orthomat:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=121701#121701 (read the whole discussion)
Your Nikon microscope uses CF objectives that are full corrected and don't need compensating eyepieces. I'm convinced (but not sure!) that the Vario Orthomat is a kind of compensating photoeyepiece and could introduce color aberrations.

The Zeiss booklet you found is a very good reference. I allways recommend it.

About reflected light microscopy, a good introduction:
http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/anatomy/reflected.html
This is another great website (very similar to microscopyu.com because of the same main author)

Both three EOS cameras would be fully adequate. For FF you want a relay magnification around 2.5X and for APSC about 1.6X, so the best format will be related with the photo adaptation you make. All three have enough resolution to take full use of the microscope optics in most cases.
Working in LV tethered to a computer via USB with Canon Utilities is very easy and convenient, as you can see the live image, magnify for critical focus, regulate the most important camera settings and directly dowload the images.
The Hasselblad may be overkill, but I never had the privilege of working with those beauties, in any case I would start with the Canons.
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
monocultured



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 0
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help and suggestions; I'll go poke it a bit more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(This is post by monocultured I've deleted by error and rescued) Admin. Pau

Hi all, I'm reviving this thread since it's about the same microscope.

After a lull I've taken this up again, and having read up a bit more I'm curious if the EPI illumination tube isn't mounted in the wrong order. Take a look at the image below



The "F" part is the aperture, and I'm not sure if it shouldn't be mounted closest to the light, rather than how it's mounted right now. Thoughts? Then again, both symbols look like they're apertures, so perhaps everything is as it should be?

Also, having reviewed the professional options on mounting a SLR, I'm again trying to find a reputable ebay vendor to get started (The pro solution I've found was approx 1000 Euro for a lens and tube). I'll poke about the forum a bit, but I'm wondering if something like this http://tinyurl.com/y9a5vl7c would do? Any ebay sellers you'd care to recommend?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many epiilluminators (not all) have two aperture diaphragms: one acting like the field iris and the other like the condenser iris in transmitted light.
Quote:
I'll poke about the forum a bit, but I'm wondering if something like this http://tinyurl.com/y9a5vl7c would do? Any ebay sellers you'd care to recommend?


It will work but likely not with the best quality, take a look at: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=209538#209538

Much better try eyepiece projection with the original Nikon CF 2X or 2.5X projective photoeyepiece. Another good option could be afocal:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99265
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
monocultured



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 0
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pua, thanks for the quick reply and suggestions.

You're probably right regarding the apertures. I thought they were different since only the aperture closer to the head gives a distinct outer shape to the illuminated area. I thought that perhaps one of the parts had a focusing lens (like moving the condensor up/down) but was wrong.

Are there any rules of thumb regarding how to set those two? I set the closer aperture so that it illuminates the area I'm interested in, but the other aperture I'm less sure of – is there a "best" setting, or is it just about finding a balance between DOF and amount of light?

I'll skip the cheapo Amscope adapters for now, but I'm wary of going afocal since the more glass you put between the image and the lens the more you lower quality (especially if I want to benefit from the 24MP FF sensor I imagine) – so i'm thinking of a direct projection solution. The tube I can 3D print, but then I need a projecting lens (previous recommendations were 2.5X) – with glass you usually get what you pay for, but are there recommendations for vendors who might have good used stuff, or others who are still good-enough?

The solution I was looking for previously was from Micro Tech Lab: http://www.lmscope.com/produkt22/lmscope_out2.php?Marke=1&Kamera=1361&Anschluss=7&Sprache=en&submit=Search
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
... since the more glass you put between the image and the lens the more you lower quality

As general statement this is not true (despite in many cases it could be).
A Plan Apo objective has much more lenses than an achromat and much better IQ, for example.

Afocal, if well done with the adequate eyepiece and camera lens combo can produce excellent results, better than some third party adapters like the Amscope. Both Zeiss and Leitz based most of their original camera adapters in the afocal principle for their finite corrected microscopes, not suspicious of bad quality stuff.

For your scope I think that the best option is the original Nikon one with eyepiece projection because you want to use full frame camera and the adequate projective is easily available.

- LM adapter: US $ 1139.25. Unknown optics 2.2X factor

- Nikon CF Pl 2.5X projective eyepiece: from $40 to $80 at ebay .Matched original Nikon optics. You still will need to make a camera holder over it with a bellows, extension tubes or custom made tube (or to find the original Nikon SRL adapter).

It's your business, for me it's clear.
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
monocultured



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 0
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll read up more on afocal.

Since my background is still photography, I've always learned that the more layers of glass you use, the more you risk reducing the image quality through stray light (thus an avoidance of more than one front filter, etc). But obviously your solution produces good result so I'll see what I can find.

Following one of the links you posted earlier, there discussion on mounting the camera either directly on the scope (in my case an external tube which would also keep out stray light) or on a separat stand. I'm a bit tight on space so would prefer to mount it directly on the scope. Any thoughts on the pros/cons of those setups?

Thanks for the patience.
M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The solution I propose is based in the original Nikon design: it uses a projective photoeyepiece without camera lens: it isn't afocal but eyepiece projection

A related thread: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20812

Google for: nikon optiphot photo tube filetype:pdf to download the manuals

For example: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjc8-S-4LbUAhUCa1AKHStzA504ChAWCDcwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.science-info.net%2Fdocs%2FNikon%2FHowToUseAMicroscopeTakeAPhotomicrograph.PDF&usg=AFQjCNHNQfa8FUpT1gtCfbWbMNpjjOnL5A
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4003
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beatsy has just posted a setup with a similar microscope. You can ask him about the tube coupling the camera.
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=213570
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Beginners Micro All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group