Sometimes, more information doesn't help

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Beatsy
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Sometimes, more information doesn't help

Post by Beatsy »

I bought a reference book on moths (Moths of the British Isles by Bernard Skinner) because my general insect reference lists very few species and I often failed to ID the moths I found. I'm not sure the new book helped though. Sure, it lists gazillions more moths and with practice I'll get better at ID'ing them, but right now, they all look the flippin' same to me :shock:

Image

abpho
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Post by abpho »

And this is only page one. lol.


Try identifying mushrooms. I hear it makes identifying warblers a piece of cake.
I'm in Canada! Isn't that weird?

NikonUser
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Post by NikonUser »

It's a superb book.
Unfortunately (perhaps intentional??) you chose the plate showing the "Pugs" which are for all practical purpose impossible to ID except by genitalia dissection (sound familiar?).

Another book worth having is Waring & Townsend "Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland" 2003.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

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Beatsy
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Location: Malvern, UK

Post by Beatsy »

NikonUser wrote:Unfortunately (perhaps intentional??) you chose the plate showing the "Pugs" which are for all practical purpose impossible to ID except by genitalia dissection (sound familiar?).
Haha - you caught me being "theatrical", I admit picking the worst plate for my example :oops: There are several other plates with a high proportion of near identical species though.

Yes - sounds familiar :) I got the field guide to micro moths too. That's frankly even worse, but I expected it in the micros.

Beatsy
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Location: Malvern, UK

Post by Beatsy »

NikonUser wrote:Another book worth having is Waring & Townsend "Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland" 2003.
There's a 3rd edition of this book (2017). Is the 2003 better?

Peter M. Macdonald
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Post by Peter M. Macdonald »

Just a quick heads up - the new, third edition, of Waring and Townsend has just been published. The illustrations, by Richard Lewington" are excellent, and show the moths in a lifelike pose, rather than Skinner's set specimens.

Another excellent choice would be British Moths - a Photographic Guide.

I use a combination of these two, and can get most denizens of my trap correctly identified. If I can do it, so can anyone.

There are lots of excellent pictures at https://www.ukmoths.org.uk/.

Peter

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Reminds me of the flycatcher plates of Neotropical bird books. Luckily, birds sing, and when they do, they are practically shouting their name, now that there are good tapes of their songs online.

Olympusman
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Moths

Post by Olympusman »

It's only going to get worse. From wjat I have read, in Central America and even in the UK similar moths are hitting on each other and cross-breeding into subtle new species.
It's kind of like dogs - they are all essentially dogs, and the assumption is that they all came down from wolves, which naturally explains the Chihuahua and the Sharpei breeds.

Mike
Michael Reese Much FRMS EMS Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, USA

NikonUser
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Re: Moths

Post by NikonUser »

Olympusman wrote:It's only going to get worse. From wjat I have read, in Central America and even in the UK similar moths are hitting on each other and cross-breeding into subtle new species.
Mike
Please supply a reference
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

Olympusman
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:31 pm

Evolution

Post by Olympusman »

I don't have the refernces at hand, but i recall more than one newspaper story about similar moths cross-breeding, which is how evolution works, does it not? In the case of the UK, the story was that due to climate change, species that had been separated by climate zones are far less separated than previously.
In the case of dogs and other doemsticated animals, humans have been pushing along evolution at an amazing pace.

Mike
Michael Reese Much FRMS EMS Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, USA

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

That sort of hybridization does happen, but in the groups I am familiar with (mainly birds and orchids and some groups of butterflies) it involves a tiny minority of species. It doesn't usually produce a new species though. In most cases hybridization just blurs the boundaries between two formerly-distinct species. If it continues it generally reduces the number of species (two become one) rather than increasing the number, though there are exceptions.

Olympusman
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Hybridization and climate change

Post by Olympusman »

Michael Reese Much FRMS EMS Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, USA

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Note that, as the article says, this process reduces the number of species rather than increases it.
“It’s a major cause of species extinction—lots of species are now disappearing because they are being genetically swamped by other, commoner ones.”
Within a species, though, the process adds to genetic variability and may speed evolution.

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