Methylsulfonal Wunderworld
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- Ernst Hippe
- Posts: 205
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- Location: Germany
- Charles Krebs
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- Location: Issaquah, WA USA
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- Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:24 am
- Location: Panama
- Ernst Hippe
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Germany
- Ernst Hippe
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Germany
Hello NicoVB,
additionally to my answer to Charles Krebs:
The retarder filter sits on a round glass plate between polarizer and condenser, turnible independely from the polarizer. It can be stacked of 2 to 3 layers of colorless clear plastic tape. However you must reach the order II or III of the pol-colors-scale. A still better material is a thin mica plate, which I was lucky to get. Those with such high values are not offered commercially, so one can only do try and error with tape. But I also used this method.
Polarizer and object must also be turnible separately to get the full color range.
I hope you can work with my explanation and wish you good results!
Greetings Ernst
additionally to my answer to Charles Krebs:
The retarder filter sits on a round glass plate between polarizer and condenser, turnible independely from the polarizer. It can be stacked of 2 to 3 layers of colorless clear plastic tape. However you must reach the order II or III of the pol-colors-scale. A still better material is a thin mica plate, which I was lucky to get. Those with such high values are not offered commercially, so one can only do try and error with tape. But I also used this method.
Polarizer and object must also be turnible separately to get the full color range.
I hope you can work with my explanation and wish you good results!
Greetings Ernst
Just tested this with adding layers of 3M clear scotch tape on a 700x700 slide and holding it between my lineair filter and condensor.
Changing the specimen, the results vary off course.
I don't receive the result you get (that nice black background with rainbow colors in the crystals), but more like an equal color spreading and replacing the black background with a color.
Depending by the way the lineair filter is turned 90°, another color appears.
Best results are with 1, 2 or 3 layers of tape.
I think that is logical, (adding around 1/4 wave filter each time) the results just cycle.
But the more layers added, tht more the effect diminishes and colors fade away.
Like you said, add 1,2 or 3 layers...
Resulting main colors:
1 layer: yellow/blue
2 layers: red/blue green
3 layers: Purple/yellow-green
----------------------------------------------
4 layers: Pink/green
5 layers: slight transparent Pink/green
6 layers: more transparent Pink/green
To finish i made 2 slides, one with a single layer, the other with 2 layers of tape.
Is it correct to presume these function now as a 1/4 and a 1/2 wave retarder filter?
And now i can combine them and rotate them independently the way it's pleased.
Some trippy colors appear!!
More testing is needed, but i still are puzzled how you manage to keep that black background.
Some post processing maybe? No offence if so, just wondering. Great effect.
Changing the specimen, the results vary off course.
I don't receive the result you get (that nice black background with rainbow colors in the crystals), but more like an equal color spreading and replacing the black background with a color.
Depending by the way the lineair filter is turned 90°, another color appears.
Best results are with 1, 2 or 3 layers of tape.
I think that is logical, (adding around 1/4 wave filter each time) the results just cycle.
But the more layers added, tht more the effect diminishes and colors fade away.
Like you said, add 1,2 or 3 layers...
Resulting main colors:
1 layer: yellow/blue
2 layers: red/blue green
3 layers: Purple/yellow-green
----------------------------------------------
4 layers: Pink/green
5 layers: slight transparent Pink/green
6 layers: more transparent Pink/green
To finish i made 2 slides, one with a single layer, the other with 2 layers of tape.
Is it correct to presume these function now as a 1/4 and a 1/2 wave retarder filter?
And now i can combine them and rotate them independently the way it's pleased.
Some trippy colors appear!!
More testing is needed, but i still are puzzled how you manage to keep that black background.
Some post processing maybe? No offence if so, just wondering. Great effect.
Last edited by NicoVB on Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...
- Ernst Hippe
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Germany
- carlos.uruguay
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- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:05 pm
- Location: Uruguay - Montevideo - America del Sur
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Danke Ernst.
It is wonderful to see all kinds of material that surround us, have functions i never would have thought...
Also understandable that you don't want to share your years of research in a hartbeat.
I'll keep experimenting.
It is wonderful to see all kinds of material that surround us, have functions i never would have thought...
Also understandable that you don't want to share your years of research in a hartbeat.
I'll keep experimenting.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...
- Ernst Hippe
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Germany
- Cactusdave
- Posts: 1631
- Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:40 pm
- Location: Bromley, Kent, UK
Ernest's advice is all good. I'd offer a few other suggestions. Producing nice polarisation colours in any suitably birefringent specimen is always going to be a matter of trial and error. It's dependent on the optical properties of the specimen and its thickness, so some, maybe even a lot of trying different combinations of retarders may be needed to get something really pleasing to you. I keep a big stock of potential retarders, CD wrappers, greetings card wrappers, small cellophane packets, the plastic 'windows' of supermarket cake boxes are all worth trying. Sellotape is good, I find stacks of two and three layers most useful. Not all Sellotape is the same, just try it. Stacking retarders often gives the most vibrant colour. I frequently use a commercial full wave red/magenta retarder with a Sellotape or other type of retarder stacked on top. This is particularly useful if you want a nice sky blue background. This guy's polystyrene retarders give particularly strong colours in my setup http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172392990381? ... EBIDX%3AIT I don't know if he would sell them without the rest of his kit. To my eye it's a bit garish for biological subjects, but might be great for crystals. Finally a thought on getting a black background. Dark ground works quite well with polarisation and a retarder and can give very striking results at low power, say up to a X10 objective.
Leitz Ortholux 1, Zeiss standard, Nikon Diaphot inverted, Canon photographic gear
Hey Dave, thx for the tip.
I already was on the point to buy this one, but instead i bought myself some good or better quality linear filter.
I bought 2 different sets, a linear 0/90 of 0.4mm and a lineai 45/135 of 0.8mm.
The angle is not that important to me, but maybe the thickness does make a difference.
I now use a linear pol filter from some old 3d glasses, only 0.28mm.
But they don't block all the light.
That is the main reason why i can't get a nice black background.
So I'm going to solve that first.
As retarders you can indeed buy Pro Redarder Flim of ?/4 (nm 450 - 700), ?/2 (nm560) or ?/1 (nm 560) for a decent price, depending on the size.
Glass ones are just too expensive for now.
But i like it more to explore all what's around in a normal household. Things you have but don't expect what their behavior is like until you hold them in between your polarizer set.
Much more fun to grab a packaging blister, cut out the flat part and see your wife thinking: "what the **** is he going to do with that?".
Some things work, others don't, but the trial and error is what makes this interesting.
I already was on the point to buy this one, but instead i bought myself some good or better quality linear filter.
I bought 2 different sets, a linear 0/90 of 0.4mm and a lineai 45/135 of 0.8mm.
The angle is not that important to me, but maybe the thickness does make a difference.
I now use a linear pol filter from some old 3d glasses, only 0.28mm.
But they don't block all the light.
That is the main reason why i can't get a nice black background.
So I'm going to solve that first.
As retarders you can indeed buy Pro Redarder Flim of ?/4 (nm 450 - 700), ?/2 (nm560) or ?/1 (nm 560) for a decent price, depending on the size.
Glass ones are just too expensive for now.
But i like it more to explore all what's around in a normal household. Things you have but don't expect what their behavior is like until you hold them in between your polarizer set.
Much more fun to grab a packaging blister, cut out the flat part and see your wife thinking: "what the **** is he going to do with that?".
Some things work, others don't, but the trial and error is what makes this interesting.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...
That is exactly what i wanted to describe when finding out that adding more layers after a point has no more use...Ernst Hippe wrote: I recommend to look for the "Michel-Levy chart of pol. colors". Stack an exact parallel staircase of a sticking tape to compare the color sequence with Levy.
Thank you for pointing in the right direction and correct scientific name.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...