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Setup of Ploum
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magnification :

size of captor : 18 mm x 13 mm

field of picture x 20 : 1.1 m => real magnification = x16

field of picture x10 : 2.2 mm => magnification = x8
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost very low for high quality ....

you can use 2 raynox dcr 150 one for lens tube, one for lens adaptation for micro 4/3 (best captor/sensor for this system).

Adpatation give 2 quality = no loss of picture, good optical precision (dm/de reduced, dw/de very small (good optical precision).


- Use a manfrotto plate for each round trip (40 picture with 1/4 mm precison each) = 10 mm for delta E.

- Make a return of object to find the same position you have leaved
with a z plate (50 um precision).

give up bellows and jump in my world Wink.


No limit, no motorisation.

Pleasure: extrem. This system is very good for infinity objective and enlarger objetive (low cost). All enlarger objective work fine with this system.
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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rjlittlefield
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 17696
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Referencing your post on the previous page, HERE.

Thank you for the clarification.

So then I will reference discussion already made.

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=174505#174505
ChrisR wrote:

I wonder if it's like this:



http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=174527#174527
rjlittlefield wrote:

Your diagram corresponds to the case where the rear lens has an extension that is shorter than needed for infinity focus. In that case the light from the front optics would come to a focus somewhat behind the camera if the camera and rear lens were not there. That configuration does work, and its behavior is qualitatively similar to the one that Michael talks about and that I show.

Your case is also somewhat simpler to think about. There is a fixed relationship between that focus point without the camera, and the unit consisting of camera plus rear lens. As a result, changing the center distance can be understood as equivalent to changing rear extension in a traditional bellows setup.

It is perhaps not clear to say "traditional bellows setup". In your setup, the equivalent bellows would be much longer than standard bellows units.

--Rik
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rjlittlefield
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 17696
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ploum wrote:
- Use a manfrotto plate for each round trip (40 picture with 1/4 mm precison each) = 10 mm for delta E.

- Make a return of object to find the same position you have leaved
with a z plate (50 um precision).

So, to shoot a 200 frame stack you will move the subject 4 times -- 40 pictures in the first position, then 40 pictures in each of the other 4 positions.

Do I understand this correctly?

--Rik
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes rik if you want Smile and don't forget software ZS Smile...

yes for 200 pictures 4x50 or 5x40. For x20 it's better x50 because delta W is small.
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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michael_r



Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frederic did i get this right:

1. Distance between the Raynox and the 200 mm lens is 18 cm on the average? You change this distance for stacking by 2 cm, so it varies from 17 cm to 19 cm?

2. What is the distance between the 200 mm lens and the microsocope objective (or enlarger lens) In your drawing you show a diaphragm and some rings.

I'm still curious.

Michael
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. distance between raynox and 200 m lens is 10 cm. I change by stacking = 1 cm or a little bit more.

2. 25 cm dipahragm is not very usefull. I close when i don't use this system for dust Smile.

Rings : on the front 42 mm on the back 58 mm. And a retro system for tube lens with 42 mm rings Inside 58 mm rings.
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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michael_r



Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frederic - thank you for the answer. In 2. i would be interested to learn the distance between the 200 mm lens and the objective (that is the length of the white rings (including diaphragm) in your drawing, between the 200 mm lens and the microscope objective)

Michael
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Distance is 25 cm (but more short is possible Smile.
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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michael_r



Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frederic, i can't believe it: is 25 cm really the distance between the 200 mm lens (lentille de focale de 200 mm) and the microscope objective (objectif) in your drawing?

Michael
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it's 25 cm but it's was long to change my system before it's was a bridge. Smile with raynox for stage 2.

But that's done well no ? Smile
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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michael_r



Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frederic, thank you for confirming this number. If this is the case you have probably built a two-sided telecentric system in your first stage, as the distance between the two elements appears to equal the some of the focal lengths. Placing the diaphragm in the common focal plane makes the system two-sided telecentric, if the diaphragm is the limiting aperture. This is different from what i assumed the first stage to be, with a spacing of the elements that is much smaller. I doubt that the formulas given by me apply to that situation, and i have to think about such a combination.


Michael
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rjlittlefield
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 17696
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely there must be some communication error.

michael_r wrote:
2. What is the distance between the 200 mm lens and the microsocope objective (or enlarger lens) In your drawing you show a diaphragm and some rings.

ploum wrote:
2. 25 cm dipahragm is not very usefull. I close when i don't use this system for dust Smile .

michael_r wrote:
In 2. i would be interested to learn the distance between the 200 mm lens and the objective (that is the length of the white rings (including diaphragm) in your drawing, between the 200 mm lens and the microscope objective)

ploum wrote:
Distance is 25 cm (but more short is possible Smile .

michael_r wrote:
i can't believe it: is 25 cm really the distance between the 200 mm lens (lentille de focale de 200 mm) and the microscope objective (objectif) in your drawing?

ploum wrote:
Yes it's 25 cm but it's was long to change my system before it's was a bridge. Smile with raynox for stage 2.
But that's done well no ? Smile


Frederic, are you really telling us that the red arrow in this diagram is 25 cm (=250 mm) ??

If the diagram is to scale it looks more like 4 or 5 cm (=40 or 50 mm).



--Rik
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes i have change this distance now Smile = 25 cm !!! Wink

I use infinity lenses. Distance is not so importante ?

Not telecentric 80 mm < 210 mm for dcr 150...

Distance is enough for create an virtual image behind L2 and adapt size image to my sensor.

Similar with that

L1 = objective + 25 cm + lens tube


_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look increasin is ever the same.....






_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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