Hello to all, this is a fabulous community, and inspired me to go back to (amateur) microscopy!
I have an old Standard RA, which my dad gave me when I was a biology major, and I'd love to do some entomological slides and some plant sections, if possible also to take photos with my old Nikon D70.
Following recs here (Charles, Ric, Pau and others), I set the D70 in an afocal setup over a (single) photo tube (I will get a Zeiss trinocular as soon as I find an affordable one), using a recently bought 50mm series E lens and Zerene Stacker, and I slowly getting there :-) (and enjoying it)
The image quality - even when doing visual observation - is not there yet, and I can use some help!
Currently, I have a flip lens 0.9x condenser, a pair of KPL W 10x/18 eyepieces, and the following objectives:
10x/0.25 DPlan Olympus (which I was playing with on a bellows)
16x/0.32 Zeiss Planachro
25x/0.45 Zeiss Planachro
40x/0.65 Zeiss Achro
I have been setting up Kohler illumination as best as I could.
So my questions are:
1. Are these objectives and combinations of eyepiece/objective/condenser reasonable - meaning, I should be getting very decent quality?
2. How can I improve the optical quality considerable, for not too much $ (or a lot for a lot more $)
3. Is it even worth keeping the Standard RA, in light of newer Nikon, Olympus, etc, with infinity objectives, etc? Zeiss objectives seem soooo expensive...
Thanks a lot for your advice!
mike
Zeiss Standard eyepieces, objectives, condenser-are mine OK?
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
Re: Zeiss Standard eyepieces, objectives, condenser-are mine
What kind of issues do you have? (unsharpness, lack of contrast, uneven illumination, vignette...). Some images would help to understand your problems.uimike wrote:The image quality - even when doing visual observation - is not there yet, and I can use some help!
In principle, they aren't the best ones but may deliver good image quality.uimike wrote:Currently, I have a flip lens 0.9x condenser, a pair of KPL W 10x/18 eyepieces, and the following objectives:
10x/0.25 DPlan Olympus (which I was playing with on a bellows)
16x/0.32 Zeiss Planachro
25x/0.45 Zeiss Planachro
40x/0.65 Zeiss Achro
I have been setting up Kohler illumination as best as I could.
The Olympus one likely isn't working at its best paired with Zeiss eyepieces, but it would work reasonably well. On bellows it will be poor because it needs complementary corrections at the eyepiece.
To get better IQ without breaking the bank you may buy Zeiss Neofluars (better color correction and sharpness than Plan achromats, but likely a bit less flatness of field). Plan Apos are better but more expensive and many used ones present delamination.
About the condenser I have it, and the difference with the 1.4 Aplanatic achromatic is small, just a bit more CA and less resolution with oil inmersion objectives.
I would like to see images of your photo setup.
Well, I have almost no experience with modern infinite corrected microscopes, but I'm sure that most ones form the big four makers will be superior (may be with the exception of some entry level models)....and MUCH more expensive even used.uimike wrote: 3. Is it even worth keeping the Standard RA, in light of newer Nikon, Olympus, etc, with infinity objectives, etc? Zeiss objectives seem soooo expensive...
But a good finite corrected microscope bundled with good optics still can deliver excellent quality
Pau
No, I just say Neofluar because 160mm corrected Plan Neofluars are rare and often as expensive as Planapos.uimike wrote:Pau, when you say Zeiss Neofluars, are you referring to Plan Neofluars?
Neofluars are widely available and very good, but not full flatfield corrected (I never saw its specification but I would qualify them as semiplan). In fact this isn't that important with centered subjets or for stacking, just for thin flat slides and single shots, and mainly for low magnification.*
In fact this is one reason why I built my main system with Leitz optics: NPL Fluotars are as good as Neofluars and plan corrected, but they work better when paired with Leitz Periplan eyepieces (well the main reason was much less rationale)
*I'm not 100% sure about the affirmations marked in italics, as I don't have Zeiss eyepieces (well, just one 8X) nor Zeiss Plan Neofluars or Planapos to compare, I just see that my Neofluars are a bit less Plan than my NPL Fluotars and Plan Apos with my Leitz Periplan eyepieces.
Pau
OK, a few photos of my setup and first ZS stacks. Feedback appreciated!
1. My setup - Zeiss Standard RA, a Kaiser copy stand behind it with a Nikon D70 attached; I still need a trinocular tube, for the time I am using the single phototube seen to the right; a manual flash, which I'm yet to position correctly, and, at the bottom edge, just because its cute - my old Sekonic which I had for ever, and its microscope attachment - apparently in good working order! The stacks below are shot using an afocal setup as described by Charles, Pau, and the lens is a Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 series E
2. Three of the objectives (all Zeiss mentioned in my OP)
3. First stack, just maybe 15 shots, not too precise, turning the focussing knob maybe a hundred micra each time? Objective is the Zeiss Planachromat 10x, I believe, and the subject is a pseudoscorpion (acquired ages ago); this is a PMax stack
4. Same thing, excpet a Dmap stack - I believe came out a bit better?
1. My setup - Zeiss Standard RA, a Kaiser copy stand behind it with a Nikon D70 attached; I still need a trinocular tube, for the time I am using the single phototube seen to the right; a manual flash, which I'm yet to position correctly, and, at the bottom edge, just because its cute - my old Sekonic which I had for ever, and its microscope attachment - apparently in good working order! The stacks below are shot using an afocal setup as described by Charles, Pau, and the lens is a Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 series E
2. Three of the objectives (all Zeiss mentioned in my OP)
3. First stack, just maybe 15 shots, not too precise, turning the focussing knob maybe a hundred micra each time? Objective is the Zeiss Planachromat 10x, I believe, and the subject is a pseudoscorpion (acquired ages ago); this is a PMax stack
4. Same thing, excpet a Dmap stack - I believe came out a bit better?
Mike,
In your pictures I see some issues, not related with the optical quality:
- Uneven illumination. It seems that the condenser isn't well centered. To center it, close the field diaphragm and focus it on the image plane (as Kolher) and center its image with the centering screws in te condenser mount. If after centering it you aren't unable to have even illumination you can try to put te auxiliar lens (the one under the condenser) if present and focus and center the condenser again. You may also try swtching off the top condenser lens.
- Dust on sensor, shown as trails when stacking.
- Color temperature. To get it right you can make preset with the camera or shot raw to adjust it in raw conversion. A blue filter can help.
- Stacking artifacts, see Zerene tutorials
There may also be some sharpness lack, may be due to camera vibration. To eliminate vibration blur you have two options:
- get exposure times af 1s or longer
- couple an electronic flash to the microscope to get actual exposure times extremely short.
About the setup, what's the eyepiece in your monocular upright tube?. The most adequate would be a Zeiss KPL 8X with eyeglasses symbol. You may also try with one of your 10X widefield ones, altough the FOV will be a bit too cropped compared with the visual one.
This is my setup:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15607
Abnother related post:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=18071
Despite you have some experience, I allways recommend to download the Zeiss booklet:
http://www.zeiss.de/C1256B5E0051569F/Em ... inning.pdf
and the microscope manual
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256F8500454979/0 ... _light.pdf
In your pictures I see some issues, not related with the optical quality:
- Uneven illumination. It seems that the condenser isn't well centered. To center it, close the field diaphragm and focus it on the image plane (as Kolher) and center its image with the centering screws in te condenser mount. If after centering it you aren't unable to have even illumination you can try to put te auxiliar lens (the one under the condenser) if present and focus and center the condenser again. You may also try swtching off the top condenser lens.
- Dust on sensor, shown as trails when stacking.
- Color temperature. To get it right you can make preset with the camera or shot raw to adjust it in raw conversion. A blue filter can help.
- Stacking artifacts, see Zerene tutorials
There may also be some sharpness lack, may be due to camera vibration. To eliminate vibration blur you have two options:
- get exposure times af 1s or longer
- couple an electronic flash to the microscope to get actual exposure times extremely short.
About the setup, what's the eyepiece in your monocular upright tube?. The most adequate would be a Zeiss KPL 8X with eyeglasses symbol. You may also try with one of your 10X widefield ones, altough the FOV will be a bit too cropped compared with the visual one.
This is my setup:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15607
Abnother related post:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=18071
Despite you have some experience, I allways recommend to download the Zeiss booklet:
http://www.zeiss.de/C1256B5E0051569F/Em ... inning.pdf
and the microscope manual
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256F8500454979/0 ... _light.pdf
Pau
Hi Pau - thanks!
Illumination: you caught me red-handed :-) I am having a very hard time centering the condenser, the carrier is one of these with screws that you have to use a screwdriver, instead of centering knobs, and I am finding it very frustrating to adjust them right - I will try harder.
Dust on sensor - aha! this is what those funny trails are! thanks - I will clean it up.
Color temperature - yep, I will put the blue filter back on and repeat.
Artifacts: yep, will read the tutorials carefully.
Exposure time: yep, will try 1s or longer, as well as the flash - for the flash, what is the first approach - using a 45 degree glass under the condenser?
Pau, thanks for mentoring me - I hope it is OK, to keep posting my attempts as I learn?
This is exciting! (plus yesterday I saw a Vorticella :-)
mike
Illumination: you caught me red-handed :-) I am having a very hard time centering the condenser, the carrier is one of these with screws that you have to use a screwdriver, instead of centering knobs, and I am finding it very frustrating to adjust them right - I will try harder.
Dust on sensor - aha! this is what those funny trails are! thanks - I will clean it up.
Color temperature - yep, I will put the blue filter back on and repeat.
Artifacts: yep, will read the tutorials carefully.
Exposure time: yep, will try 1s or longer, as well as the flash - for the flash, what is the first approach - using a 45 degree glass under the condenser?
Pau, thanks for mentoring me - I hope it is OK, to keep posting my attempts as I learn?
This is exciting! (plus yesterday I saw a Vorticella :-)
mike
If at visual observation through the eyepieces the condenser is well centered (following the centering method), the problem may also be due to bad centerig of the camera over the eyepiece. Try the tric of close the camera lens diphragm to center the vignette as I described in my setup post and level the camera carefully with a bubble level to be perfectly parallel with the microscope stage.uimike wrote: Illumination: you caught me red-handed :-) I am having a very hard time centering the condenser, the carrier is one of these with screws that you have to use a screwdriver, instead of centering knobs, and I am finding it very frustrating to adjust them right - I will try harder.
Of course!uimike wrote:- I hope it is OK, to keep posting my attempts as I learn?
Pau