This Just Seems Strange

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EricRed
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This Just Seems Strange

Post by EricRed »

I hesitated even posting this. It just seemed strange. I buy a reasonable number of things on eBay. I often see items that seem over priced, but if somebody is willing to pay the price, I guess that is what it is worth. A couple days ago an eBay search for Thorlabs SM2 tubes came up with this listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265068078906?ul_noapp=true

It is asking $59.99 for SM2L30 tubes. I checked the Thorlabs site:

https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cf ... ber=SM2L30

I found the same tube for $38.09.

What am I missing? I would think anybody interested in this item would know all about Thorlabs, and just as I did, realize this eBay piece is far beyond the new price.

I purchased all my Thorlabs parts used. Does Thorlabs limit sales to individuals, have high minimums or charge high shipping? I had the thought the listing is some sort of eBay scam. It seems like a very poor one if it is.

Eric
-- Eric --

enricosavazzi
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by enricosavazzi »

If it is any consolation, I regularly see second-hand items on eBay, Aliexpress etc. at prices that significantly exceed the price of the same item in factory-new condition. China-based sellers seem to be especially greedy these days. Some Indian and SE Asian sellers also sometimes seem to have no clue of the real value of the second-hand items they wish to sell, and advertise commonplace items at pure fantasy prices with plenty of trailing zeroes. It's a free market, so one chooses the asking prices. That does not mean that they will actually be able to sell the items in question.

This is not restricted to photography and microscope items. I recently bought a few second-hand Cisco routers and interface cards for them at quite reasonable prices in the EU (although not as cheap as usual in the US for the same items). I did notice that similar second-hand router equipment is advertised at far higher prices by Chinese sellers, often higher than the corresponding items in new condition ordered in the EU from a Cisco or Juniper representative. Even within the EU, the highest eBay prices for the same item in the same condition can easily be 4-5 times the lowest price.
--ES

RobertOToole
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by RobertOToole »

EricRed wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:08 pm
I hesitated even posting this. It just seemed strange. I buy a reasonable number of things on eBay. I often see items that seem over priced, but if somebody is willing to pay the price, I guess that is what it is worth. A couple days ago an eBay search for Thorlabs SM2 tubes came up with this listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265068078906?ul_noapp=true

It is asking $59.99 for SM2L30 tubes. I checked the Thorlabs site:

https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cf ... ber=SM2L30

I found the same tube for $38.09.

What am I missing? I would think anybody interested in this item would know all about Thorlabs, and just as I did, realize this eBay piece is far beyond the new price.

I purchased all my Thorlabs parts used. Does Thorlabs limit sales to individuals, have high minimums or charge high shipping? I had the thought the listing is some sort of eBay scam. It seems like a very poor one if it is.

Eric
You noticed also, I see that all the time and I hate it. Sometimes I message them and ask them why they charge over list price for things and offer them 25% of the asking price, so half of thorlabs list price. Sometimes they take it. Other times they ignore your offer. They waste everyones time but I think there are lazy people that pay the higher price without checking maybe? :-k

The best? They are asking 40% more than list price for a used lens, the Chinese eBay sellers do this every day. They are asking $1400 for a used lens that is $995 straight from the US distributor new. Lazy sellers. :-k

Best,

RobertOToole
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by RobertOToole »

enricosavazzi wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:53 pm
If it is any consolation, I regularly see second-hand items on eBay, Aliexpress etc. at prices that significantly exceed the price of the same item in factory-new condition. China-based sellers seem to be especially greedy these days. Some Indian and SE Asian sellers also sometimes seem to have no clue of the real value of the second-hand items they wish to sell, and advertise commonplace items at pure fantasy prices with plenty of trailing zeroes. It's a free market, so one chooses the asking prices. That does not mean that they will actually be able to sell the items in question.

This is not restricted to photography and microscope items. I recently bought a few second-hand Cisco routers and interface cards for them at quite reasonable prices in the EU (although not as cheap as usual in the US for the same items). I did notice that similar second-hand router equipment is advertised at far higher prices by Chinese sellers, often higher than the corresponding items in new condition ordered in the EU from a Cisco or Juniper representative. Even within the EU, the highest eBay prices for the same item in the same condition can easily be 4-5 times the lowest price.
:shock:

This is a good thread. I'm guilty!

I just remembered that I use to auction Canon and Nikon brochures, the thick glossy catalogs. Sometimes the bidding would get to $35+$10 shipping for a free catalog, :shock: my local dealer used to give me them by the case to get rid of them. Funny since I used to make more on the free catalogs than he used to on the actual cameras sometimes (due to CCD surcharges). I acutally used to list the publication number in the ad. They could call 1-800-buy-canon and get the same thing for free.

Some buyers are lazy and they like to bid. =D>

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by RobertOToole »

RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:04 pm
enricosavazzi wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:53 pm
If it is any consolation, I regularly see second-hand items on eBay, Aliexpress etc. at prices that significantly exceed the price of the same item in factory-new condition. China-based sellers seem to be especially greedy these days. Some Indian and SE Asian sellers also sometimes seem to have no clue of the real value of the second-hand items they wish to sell, and advertise commonplace items at pure fantasy prices with plenty of trailing zeroes. It's a free market, so one chooses the asking prices. That does not mean that they will actually be able to sell the items in question.

This is not restricted to photography and microscope items. I recently bought a few second-hand Cisco routers and interface cards for them at quite reasonable prices in the EU (although not as cheap as usual in the US for the same items). I did notice that similar second-hand router equipment is advertised at far higher prices by Chinese sellers, often higher than the corresponding items in new condition ordered in the EU from a Cisco or Juniper representative. Even within the EU, the highest eBay prices for the same item in the same condition can easily be 4-5 times the lowest price.

This is a good thread, this has made me realize that I'm actually guilty of this! :shock:

I just remembered that I use to auction Canon and Nikon brochures, the thick glossy catalogs. Sometimes the bidding would get to $35+$10 shipping for a free catalog, :shock: my local dealer used to give me them by the case to get rid of them. Funny since I used to make more on the free catalogs than he used to on the actual cameras sometimes (due to CCD surcharges). I actually used to list the publication number in the ad so anyone could call 1-800-buy-canon number and get the same catalog for free.

Some buyers are really lazy or maybe they just like to bid. =D>

I've actually seen ads on eBay as "box only" auctions asking more than the actual lens :D

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by RobertOToole »

This is interesting, checking eBay for Rodenstock Modular Focus, 7 ads come up, only 2 are below the cost new, 4 are more are asking for more than the cost of a new unit! The Modular Focus Unit new for $293+$10 for shipping.


_PM-Digikey-ad.jpg

Current eBay prices for used units :D to be fair these do include $30 adapters and an extension tube. #-o

Gotta love the $810 unit! These are all being sold by people that don't even have the item in stock. They just steal the image and make an ad. 8-[

I would guess these are about $50 locally in China on the used market, they usually throw them in for free when you buy a line scan lens for $200 in China!


_PM-Ebay-ad.jpg

This reminds me of a Russian joke, I'm born and raised here in California but I've spent lots of time in RU, and it goes some guy at a party brags, "Just bought a brand new MB G-wagon G63 for $150K!", a Russian guy comes back with "Thats nothing Igor, I just bought one for $155K....it was used!" In Russian its not what you own, its how much you can pay.

Maybe its the same in China? #-o :shock:

Why pay only $300 when you can afford to pay $810 and brag about it later?

Best,

Robert

Lou Jost
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by Lou Jost »

"Lazy sellers."

No, lazy buyers.

enricosavazzi
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by enricosavazzi »

RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:58 pm
[...]
The best? They are asking 40% more than list price for a used lens, the Chinese eBay sellers do this every day. They are asking $1400 for a used lens that is $995 straight from the US distributor new. Lazy sellers. :-k
[...]
One factor in this (hopefully) self-defeating seller strategy is that many of the China-based sellers in question do not actually own the item to sell. They are only collecting ads from domestic bulletin boards are re-advertising the same descriptions and pictures with a ludicrous price markup, so they are not really risking to lose a sale. They only money they are risking is the eBay advertising fee, which often is entirely waived by eBay if the item does not sell. This is one (of several) reasons why there are so many ads using the same pictures from different sellers and with wildly different prices. If, against all odds, one of their advertised items should sell, they can buy it from the original advertiser and re-ship it to the foreign buyer. This is also why often they cannot deliver the actual item (which may already have been sold to another buyer by the original advertiser) and have to bait-and-switch by proposing a different item to their would-be buyer.

One possible way to find out whether a seller actually has the item on hand is asking for an additional picture of a specific detail of the item. If they cannot provide such a picture, or it takes weeks for them to do so, then you know you are dealing with a reseller who actually does not have the item.

This reseller business may not violate eBay rules, and in any case it would be difficult for eBay to prove.
--ES

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

In this case, with a US seller listing 9400+ items, maybe it's just a lack of price research by the seller? They are selling such a potpourri of stuff.

Between the "best offer" option, low postage costs, no need for a credit card, no new account, and no restocking fees, it might even be easier to buy from them rather than from Thorlabs directly.

viktor j nilsson
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by viktor j nilsson »

Ichthyophthirius wrote: Between the "best offer" option, low postage costs, no need for a credit card, no new account, and no restocking fees, it might even be easier to buy from them rather than from Thorlabs directly.
I think this is spot on. I've never bought anything directly from Thorlabs so I don't really know how it works, but I've bought hundreds of items on eBay. It's not easy to see what the shipping cost would be on Thorlabs' site, and it's easy to think that they might not even be willing to sell small quantities to private customers. So there are lots of small barriers that I would need to overcome before I would be able to buy a small number of SM2 tubes from Thorlabs. On eBay, it's just a single click. Because of this, I don't think that the SM2 ad is really in the same league as many other eBay sellers charging outrageous prices. I can absolutely see why someone would find it more convenient to buy it from them.

chris_ma
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by chris_ma »

I was looking for used thorlabs parts recently and noticed the same thing.

usually I order directly because in europe used parts are hard to find. it's quite simple to do, but I usually have to fill out a form that I don't use the material for military use etc, which delays things a couple of days, and also pay 19% VAT on top of the list price.
shipping costs have always been reasonable, and the items are packaged nicely, so that wouldn't be any reason to buy used gear.
chris

Chris S.
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by Chris S. »

I've ordered directly from Thorlabs many times. Even if you are an individual not affiliated with a big company, they are very easy to work with. Shipping costs are a straightforward calculation once you have an item in your cart. They even include a box of free edible treats in every shipment.

One of the things I like about Thorlabs is that it's easy to exchange emails or get on the phone with a support engineer who knows--or will find out--any technical detail you might want to know. (These good characteristics, excepting the free snacks, are also true of Edmund Optics, a Thorlabs competitor for many product types.)

For people who are serious about opto-mechanics, it's worth requesting a catalog from Thorlabs--a hardbound, 1900-page tome that contains a lot of explanatory information. The Newport catalog is a close second. It likely costs these companies quite a bit to print and send a catalog, so I hope people will not make such requests lightly.

One last good thing about Thorlabs is that they are constantly adding new products to their line labeled "inspired by customer request," or words to that effect. Quite a few such items have directly addressed needs felt by our community. I get the impression that if you see a need for something that doesn't exist, a support engineer will give you a hearing and perhaps the item will get made and added to the catalog.

--Chris S.

PS--The genre of Russian humor to which Robert refers involves the trope of "New Russians" (новые русские, Novye Russkie)--people who made quick fortunes in the 1990s' wave of capitalism following perestroika. The trope was that these nouveau riche individuals flaunted their money, in marked contrast to the frugal ways of most Russian people. This genre is similar to the yuppie jokes popular in the U.S. in the 1990s. For an amusing (if occasionally arguable) read about Russian humor tropes, see Wikipedia's Russian humor.

RobertOToole
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Re: This Just Seems Strange

Post by RobertOToole »

I've had the same experience with Chris S, I've purchased directly from Thorlabs and nothing but great support.

BTW, the free snack box is called LabSnacks.

One big factor everyone is missing is that Thorlabs offers a warranty, some items are covered for the life of the product, also I was told you can return anything in 30 days for a complete refund, even a 10X HR lens.

If anyone wants to pay close to 40% over retail price something like a 10X Super Apochromatic, be sure to let me know, I will be happy to take your money. :-k :D

Best,

Robert

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