Connect Nikon CFI BE Plan Achromat Objective 10x to Lens

Mary Konchar · Post by **Mary Konchar** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:05 pm

I'm new to the forum, and I would like to know what I need to connect a Nikon CFI BE Plan Achromat Objective 10x to my Canon 100mm IS USM Macro Lens. I'd be grateful if someone could let me know what I need, and, if possible, where I could purchase the items.

This is a link to the Nikon Objective I'm looking at:
http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-cfi-b ... copes.html

If the above lens won't work, I'd also appreciate information about a lens that will.

Thanks,
Mary

jotafoto · Post by **jotafoto** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:00 pm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADAPTER-of-DIN- ... 20cad4adf5

Not sure what is RMS that lens, but I think so

Regards

Craig Gerard · Post by **Craig Gerard** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:08 pm

Mary,

Hold fire on the purchase of an adapter until we confirm the objective thread details...

*The product image on the OpticsPlanet website is not an accurate depiction of the CFI BE objectives.

In brief, yes, your proposed arrangement will work. On a 100mm lens a 10X infinity-corrected objective will deliver magification of 5X.

Some related information:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 263#116263

Craig

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:40 pm

Rik confirmed in this post that the Nikon CFI BE series has RMS threads.

--Chris

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:46 pm

The Nikon CFI BE 10X objective paired with Canon 100mm f/2.8L IS USM macro lens makes a fine combination for use at 5X on an APS-C sized sensor. If you're shooting full-frame, then it won't go clear to the corners.

See http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16348 for sample quality. (Apologies for the choice of subject.

)

The CFI BE objectives are RMS thread.

There are a couple of different routes you might go.

The simplest is RMS to 52mm filter thread, then a step ring from 52mm to the 67mm required by the macro lens. That's the combo that I use most often.

Alternatively, you can go RMS to 42x1.0 screw thread, then 42x1.0 to 52mm filter thread, then the step ring. That path allows to insert a 42x1.0 iris just in back of the objective, which for advanced applications can provide better rendering of OOF parts of the subject behind the in-focus slab that you'll construct with focus stacking.

Part numbers for the adapters are:

RMS-to-52mm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RMS-8-microscop ... 0750438193
67 to 52 mm step-down ring: http://www.ebay.com/itm/67mm-to-52mm-67 ... 0991278153

If you want to add an iris to allow stopping down for sharper background, then it's like this:
RMS-to-M42 flat plate adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/thin-M42-to-RMS ... 0619040676
M42 iris: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IRIS-DIAPHRAGM- ... 0547138653
M42-to-M52 adapter ring: http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-to-42mm-52 ... 0331162636
plus the step-down ring listed above.

These should be the same links as provided in the earlier thread that Chris S. pointed you to while I was typing.

I hope this helps. What sort of subjects do you plan on shooting?

--Rik

jotafoto · Post by **jotafoto** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:34 pm

Sorry, I thought it was with the 100 macro without stabilizer.

+ http://www.ebay.com/itm/67-58mm-Step-Do ... 4d06c6f56d

Mary Konchar · Post by **Mary Konchar** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:01 pm

Okay, I'm getting some great information here, but I guess I should have mentioned that I'm using a full frame Canon (5D MK III). So. should I be looking at another lens to get the corners? I can always crop if I remember to allow for that when taking the shots.

I'll probably pick up a crop sensor camera by next spring ... waiting to see if a new 7D comes out by then.

Thanks so much for all the help!

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:30 pm

Mary Konchar wrote:Okay, I'm getting some great information here, but I guess I should have mentioned that I'm using a full frame Canon (5D MK III). So. should I be looking at another lens to get the corners? I can always crop if I remember to allow for that when taking the shots.

Probably the best way to think of it is that each microscope objective covers a certain size subject, which you can match to any size sensor with judicious choice of tube lens.

On an APS-C sensor, at 5X with a 100 mm tube lens, the objective covers a subject field about 4.4 mm x 3 mm. That's just about its maximum. If you use a 200 mm tube lens instead of 100 mm, then the 10X objective will nicely cover your full-frame sensor at 10X, but this gives you a subject area of only 3.6 mm x 2.4 mm. They're not quite the same because the ratio of sensor sizes is not quite the same as the ratio of tube lens lengths. If the lenses were 124:200 or 100:161, then the subject size would be just the same on both sensors.

So... The Nikon CFI BE 10X microscope objective is known to cover a 4.4 mm x 3 mm subject with good quality. Anything larger than that is pushing your luck. One reasonable approach would be to choose a lens configuration based on subject size: use the objective on your 5D Mark III with a 200 mm tube lens if your subject fits comfortably in a 3.6 mm x 2.4 mm frame, or use it with a 100 mm tube lens plus cropping if your subject only fits in 4.4 mm x 3 mm or a little larger, or use an entirely different objective or macro lens if your subject is too big for the objective.

Is this helping?

--Rik

Mary Konchar · Post by **Mary Konchar** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:36 pm

Since I'm using a full frame camera, would I get better coverage by using the 10x with my 180mm Macro?

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:46 pm

That sounds great. 9X, covering a 4 mm x 2.7 mm subject. Which 180 are we talking about?

--Rik

Mary Konchar · Post by **Mary Konchar** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:05 pm

I have the Canon 180mm 3.5L. So it sounds like I should add a 72mm adapter ring, and then I could use the 10x with both lenses.

You folks have been very helpful. I'm sure to have more questions as I explore this new area of photography, and I'm happy to have this forum as a resource.

Mary

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:24 am

Mary Konchar wrote:I have the Canon 180mm 3.5L. So it sounds like I should add a 72mm adapter ring, and then I could use the 10x with both lenses.

Yep, that's what I would do.

Now, on to another important issue: how do you plan to step focus?

--Rik

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:13 am

Mary, we are remiss--welcome to the forum--glad you're here! Ask away. (We usually remember our manners and say a word of welcome to first-time posters, but sometimes forget ourselves.)

A stray thought: Based on what you've shared about your current photo gear, you may have a preference for gold-standard lenses. In my mind, at 10x for infinite optics, this would suggest not the Nikon CFI BE, but the Mitutoyo 10x M Plan Apo. This Mitutoyo has 33.5 mm of working distance, which is huge for 10x; do I read the working distance of the Nikon CFI BE correctly as 6.7mm? If so, this is workable, but not nearly so easy to live with as 33.5 mm. Also, the Mitutoyo is an apochromat, whereas the Nikon is an achromat. Caveat: I have and use this and other Mitutoyo objectives, but have no experience with this particular Nikon objective (though I have quite a few finite Nikon objectives).

Mounting these Mitutoyo infinite objectives on either of your prime lenses is quite similar to mounting the Nikon CFI BE on them--you would simply substitute an adapter with appropriate threads.

FYI, there is a used specimen of the 10X Mitutoyo Plan Apo on this forum's equipment exchange section here.

Agreed with Rik's follow-on question about how you plan to step-focus. (Hint: strongly consider the StackShot from Cognisys.)

Cheers,

--Chris

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:52 am

Oops indeed -- welcome aboard!

I was having a stray thought very much like Chris's.

In my experience there are three objectives that make sense to consider here. They are the Nikon CFI BE Plan Achromat 10X NA 0.25 (CFI 45 series, MRN70100), the Nikon CFI Plan Achromat 10X NA 0.25 (CFI 60 series, MRL00102), and the Mitutoyo Plan Apo LWD 10X NA 0.28. They vary by working distance, chromatic correction, resolution, and field size.

I own and use samples of all these objectives, and unfortunately it's not as simple as saying A beats B beats C. The Mitutoyo is unchallenged for working distance and color correction, but at least my sample has a smaller field and lower resolution than the Nikon MRL00102. See for example the discussion and images linked at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 939#100939. Depending on what you're trying to do, either lens could be a better fit.

Compared to the Nikon MRL00102, the Nikon MRN70100 (CFI BE) strikes me as having a slightly smaller field but similar resolution and color characteristics. I haven't taken time to run a careful head-to-head test because both of them do a good job for me at 5X on APS-C (in contrast to the Mitutoyo, which clearly loses out in the corners at 5X).

Sorry I can't tell you which of these lenses you should buy. They're all good, and I'm quite confident that no matter which one you get you'll be blown away by the improvement in resolution compared to conventional macro lenses pushed up to similar magnifications.

--Rik

Mary Konchar · Post by **Mary Konchar** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:33 am

Thanks for the welcome -- happy to be here!

I plan to purchase a StackShot for step focusing, and I'm considering the one with the longer rail. I have some RRS clamps, and am hoping I'll be able to mount one of them on the StackShot platform for camera connection. Any suggestions/comments about the StackShot and accessories are welcome.

I'm thinking that insects will be my first subjects, but hope that experimentation will lead to more interesting subjects as I learn the ropes. Not that insects aren't interesting, but I mostly do fine art, and am interested in patterns, color, form, and discovering art in the unseen world around us. Just trying to broaden my photography horizons so to speak.

I had been considering the purchase of the Canon MPE-65 lens in order to explore this area of photography, but since I'm not sure if I will stick with it I did some searching for alternatives, and that is when I came upon this site, and became curious about using the objective in my original post. Looked like an inexpensive way to proceed at the time.

Now I see that, like most photography, there are layers and layers to be discovered. And, like most photography, the choices usually require more investment in gear.

If I was sure about my continued interest I would probably purchase the Mitutoyo, as the working distance is very appealing, and probably makes it much easier to light the subject. The Nikon MRL00192 looks to be priced at around $200, and the Nikon MRN70100 is around $100. Now I have to decide if the extra $100 is worth it.

Then there is the question of adding M42 Iris, which also has obvious benefits. So, if you were making somewhat of a trade-off to contain costs, would you go with the Nikon MRL00192 without adding the M42 Iris, or get the Nikon MRN70100 and add the M42 Iris?