Canon TS-E 90 f/2.8

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Craig Gerard
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Canon TS-E 90 f/2.8

Post by Craig Gerard »

I've just purchased a Canon TS-E 90mm f/2.8. :smt087

I did a bit of reading prior to the purchase, but if anyone has any comments, consolation, advice or suggestions, please feel free to share them.

The TS-E 90 will be used on an APS-C DSLR, at this stage, either a Canon 50D or Canon 7D.

Which diopter would you recommend for those occasions when additional magnification is desired? I have a few Raynox (150, 250, 201); but do you see a use for a Canon 500D close-up lens as an additional alternative? Reading an older thread would indicate...quite possibly so and maybe more applicable than the Raynox.

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... php?t=6379

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... php?t=5568

http://www.fredmiranda.com/TS-E90/

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Revi ... eview.aspx

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/165-c ... rt--review



Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

DQE
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Post by DQE »

What an interesting lens!

I'm sure many if not most of us have looked at tilt/shift lenses in some depth, wanting to enjoy their unique features and applications.

Thanks also for providing some links - I look forward to reviewing them.

One of the first things I need to refresh my memory about is the magnification range available through the usual means of tubes and close-up lenses.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

DQE
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:33 pm
Location: near Portland, Maine, USA

Post by DQE »

Here's another thread that may be useful - I think it mostly contains TS-E photos.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1023453

Hope this helps.

What we also need is for the MP-E lens to be made available with TS-E capability and to extend its focal length from 65mm to 100mm!!
Last edited by DQE on Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

Oskar O
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Post by Oskar O »

I have the Nikon equivalent and it's very similar. If I need to go closer I add a short (27.5mm) extension tube, but generally I try to stick to what the lens provides by itself (1:2 max), as the quality tends to go down when pushing it, particularly when strong tilt is used. I anyway have other lenses that work better for higher magnifications. Haven't really given diopters a thought, but the front element is deeply recessed, which I think wouldn't be optimal for a diopter. But let us know how it works out when you try it :wink:

Craig Gerard
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 1:51 am
Location: Australia

Post by Craig Gerard »

The TS-E 90mm f/2.8 has arrived. It is as sharp as a two-edged sword.

I understand, to some extent, the general tilt/shift concept and will practice until I am familar with relevant applications in order to realise its full potential.

By default, the direction of the 'tilt' is determined by the orientation of the camera; left and right in landscape; up and down in portrait.

Direction of the 'shift' (a potential head-scratcher ) is up and down in landscape orientation, left and right in portrait orientation.

I believe this particular lens can be modified so the tilt and shift follow the same axis, which seems to make more sense...........but then, what do I know :roll: Has anyone worked with a modified version of this lens?

Later releases of some TS-E lenses have a built-in facility that permit such alterations as required, on-the-go.

Anyway, some more links and information (seems like a good place to put them).

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/arti ... shift.html

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori ... enses1.htm

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori ... enses2.htm




Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

SONYNUT
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Post by SONYNUT »

tilt for depth
shift for shape
..............................................................................
Just shoot it......

Craig Gerard
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Post by Craig Gerard »

Ooops....This lens is designed to permit the 'axis' alteration without requiring modification. There is a silver button which only needs to be depressed and the lens turned, voilà :) (must be time to read the manual)
SONYNUT wrote:tilt for depth
shift for shape
Could you define/expand the definition of "shape"?


Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

mgoodm3
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Post by mgoodm3 »

Tilt: tilts the focus plane. I use a Nikon 85 PC micro for my coin photography because it allows me to tilt the coin into the light while keeping everything in sharp focus. DOF is the same as always although the tilted focus plane makes the depth of field a cone shape (closer portions of the focus plane will have a narrower DOF and farther portions will have a wider DOF).

Shift: allows you to change the perspective of the shot. Prized for architectural photography. I can't take a picture of a building from 20 feet off of the ground, but shifting can make it look that way.

edit: I use a Canon 500D on my 85 to increase the mag a little.

DQE
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Post by DQE »

Is there any consensus as to what magnification the TS-E 90 mm lens would work well at, both with and without tilt/shift?
------------

I had almost made up my mind as to what lens to acquire for my pending birthday...but I hadn't considered the TS-E lenses! Now I've got to restart my brain and compare some grapefruits with the previously selected apples and oranges!

If I shouldn't use the TS-E up to about 1X (or beyond) without losing significant detail, that would be a concern, perhaps not fatal. Of course what I'd really like to be able to do is tilt and shift freely at 1x-2x mag!

What would be the pros and cons of extension tubes vs diopters for such a lens, while trying to get to at least 1x mag? Is it possible that a combination of a short tube and a moderate diopter would work better?
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

Craig Gerard
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 1:51 am
Location: Australia

Post by Craig Gerard »

Phil,

The TS-E 90mm is a manual focus lens, so too the MP-E; not sure if you see this as a limiting factor. The focus ring is very smooth, responsive and precise. The lens is known for its sharpness, absence of any distortion and negligable CA (if any). I have not used it to any extent to comment on its overall capabiities when used in a conventional manner; but suffice to say, at present, the 2.8/100 L IS USM is resting in a cupboard.

When you factor in the tilt and shift capabilities of the TS-E 90mm it becomes a very desirable piece.

I have ordered a Canon 500D close-up lens to use with the TS-E 90mm and intend to attach some Raynox diopters and possibly, as a separate exercise, some Minolta diopters and see what happens.
DQE wrote:What would be the pros and cons of extension tubes vs diopters for such a lens, while trying to get to at least 1x mag? Is it possible that a combination of a short tube and a moderate diopter would work better?
I look forward to further responses regarding your enquiry.



Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

DQE
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:33 pm
Location: near Portland, Maine, USA

Post by DQE »

Craig Gerard wrote:Phil,

The TS-E 90mm is a manual focus lens, so too the MP-E; not sure if you see this as a limiting factor. The focus ring is very smooth, responsive and precise. The lens is known for its sharpness, absence of any distortion and negligable CA (if any). I have not used it to any extent to comment on its overall capabiities when used in a conventional manner; but suffice to say, at present, the 2.8/100 L IS USM is resting in a cupboard.

When you factor in the tilt and shift capabilities of the TS-E 90mm it becomes a very desirable piece.

I have ordered a Canon 500D close-up lens to use with the TS-E 90mm and intend to attach some Raynox diopters and possibly, as a separate exercise, some Minolta diopters and see what happens.
DQE wrote:What would be the pros and cons of extension tubes vs diopters for such a lens, while trying to get to at least 1x mag? Is it possible that a combination of a short tube and a moderate diopter would work better?
I look forward to further responses regarding your enquiry.



Craig
Craig,

Thanks for you reply and comments.

Manual focus is fine - I have the MP-E and find that the field macro I almost exclusively do is purely a manual focus activity. In my case, I use the "lean back and forth" technique and don't touch the focus ring at all on the 100mm (non-IS) Canon macro lens when it's in use for bigger bugs and occasional flowers.

I've been reviewing the links and reviews on the TS-E lens and tentatively think it would be a good addition to my all-Canon lens portfolio, which consists of: 16-35mm, 24-105mm, 100-300mm DO IS, 85mm f1.2, 100mm non-IS macro.

While I'd also enjoy upgrading the 100-300mm to the new IS "L" zoom for general purposes, and upgrading the 100mm to the IS model (probably without much benefit to macro uses), the TS-E lens would provide excellent detail and the very interesting tilt/shift capabilities. Thus its novel features would probably do more to add new capabilities and features than merely upgrading one of the other lenses I have.

While my initial thought (and still of interest) was to obtain a dedicated dragonfly lens such as the f4 300mm or perhaps try the new 100-300mm "L" lens for that purpose, that can wait until next spring when the dragons come back in force - fall is definitely in the air where I live near Portland, Maine.

---------------
I've read some complaints about the difficulty of adjusting the small knobs and locking knobs on the TS-E 90mm lens - what's your take on that concern? It's one thing if it's a mild or moderate nuisance but quite another if they are excessively fragile or very hard to use in day-to-day practice.

Any idea what magnification one would obtain with 12mm, 25mm, 37mm, and 68mm of tube extension? At the moment, I have 12 and 25mm Canon. I've read that there would be some degradation of image quality if one uses high degrees of tilt or shift with extension tubes.

I don't mind vignetting within reason since it's easily adjusted with reasonable accuracy in Photoshop and/or ACR.

I already have Canon 250 and 500 diopters, and could try those out.

What about teleconverters with the TS-E 90? Some lenses are stressed by such things and I assume using max tilt/shift with TCs would degrade image quality at least somewhat.

And, of course the bottom line issue is how to optimize macro image quality with reasonable access to tilt and shift at say 1x magnification. Same things apply to landscape photography, another occasional interest for me, probably to be explored further if I do acquire this lens.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

Craig Gerard
Posts: 2877
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 1:51 am
Location: Australia

Post by Craig Gerard »

Phil,

First things first; I don't have a problem with the adjustment knobs. The 'tilt' knob could be described as large enough and easily adjusted. The 'shift' knob is smaller; but presents no problems with regard to accessibilty and making adjustments. There are two smaller knobs, these are used to adjust the tension or sensitivity of the 'shift' and 'tilt' knobs; they can also be used to 'lock' the associated knobs.

I'll report back when I have attached various diopters.

Regarding extension and teleconverters, I haven't been down that path yet; but have read in the articles (links earlier in thread) where reasonable extension does not present detrimental outcomes. The sharpness of the TS-E 90mm provides a headstart with regard to degradation which may occur when it's capabilities are taken to the extreme.

If intending to buy the lens, don't dismiss the secondhand market. This lens is like the MP-E, some people buy them, don't use them much, and eventually sell at a reduced price. I purchased the TS-E 90 secondhand; but it is as good as new; so too my MP-E, it was also purchased secondhand at a considerable saving in comparison to the retail price.


Craig
Last edited by Craig Gerard on Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

DQE
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:33 pm
Location: near Portland, Maine, USA

Post by DQE »

Link to a mini-review of TC use with a TS-E lens:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/stuff/?p=96

Not too detailed but some info. I usually enjoy this fellow's regular web site updates on a wide range of photographic topics.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

Craig Gerard
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 1:51 am
Location: Australia

Post by Craig Gerard »

Phil,

Thanks for the link. The TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm are known to exhibit CA, so the results in the linked report do not necessarily apply, for the most part, to the TS-E 45mm or TS-E 90mm.

An earlier link you posted (to keep things in context). These photographers appear to be having significant success with the TS-E 17 and TS-E 24mm.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1023453


Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

Craig Gerard
Posts: 2877
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 1:51 am
Location: Australia

Post by Craig Gerard »

Some tentative observations.

I have been experimenting with various Raynox diopters (macro conversion lenses) and the TS-E 90mm.

Need some advice regarding the Scheimpflug principle.

Is it my imagination, or inexperience, or does the effect of tilt and swing known as the Scheimpflug principle diminish as magnification increases....or more likely, does the amount of swing and tilt need to be increased as a consequence of higher magnification?

When not using diopters I can see the effects of tilt/swing (not to be confused with tilt and shift or swing and shift); however, when increasing magnification, the effects are not so pronounced and somewhat negligible.

Additional related information:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?p=40781

Oh well, there is still the 'shift' :) and minor tilt/swing benefits; but as far as diopters go, it would appear the 500D close-up lens is the most practical/obtainable magnification applicable for use with the TS-E 90mm?

P.S. That loud sound you just heard was not a plane breaking the Sound Barrier, it was just me crashing into an optical principal. ](*,)



Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

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